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Should Stefan address these criticisms or ignore them?

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76 replies to this topic Showing all posts

#36
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

I am highly disappointed in these people and am amazed how so many of them are piling on. I understand how statists latch on to lies and innuendo, but it has been a revelation to me that so many in this "movement" have suspended their ability to reason. Apparently Michael Dean on Freedom Feens is spending the entire week trashing Stefan. I heard one of the shows and there was so much wrong with what they were saying that I wouldn't even know where to start.

 

 

I'm highly disappointed at this, because I admired some of these people, right until the moment they just suspended all critical thinking and drank like drunkards from the poisoned well.


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#37
Rudd-O DragonFear

Rudd-O DragonFear
  • 764 posts

I made a list of the characters that have unquestioningly joined the trollery and smears, and I posted it here.  Look at the responses I got.  I don't think I've ever been harassed and bullied by more people ever in my life.  I lost count of the names I got called.  And the worst part is the betrayal of people that I used to trust, who wholesale bought the troll propaganda without even asking for a single shred of evidence.

 

As it happens, I'm not using that account anymore because, as part of the fallout of this debacle, some callous sociopath publicly tied my account to a former account I used, which I had ceased to use because of death threats I got from yet another wacko on Reddit.  So he gets the pleasure of smearing my name by implying that I'm dishonest because I have two accounts, while I have to ditch my Reddit account that had accumulated plenty valuable content and supportive friends.  I know I'm not supposed to expect fairness from despicable people like that guy, but where's the fairness in that?

 

Ugh.  Anyway, if you are a Redditor and you see any of these people in the list posting, now you know what they are doing, and you're invited to act accordingly.


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#38
--------

--------
  • 39 posts

This is a topic I'm interested in at the moment as I am generally interested in any real criticisms to Stefan's arguments. Unfortunately, like many UPB attackers before this, these two complaints fall short IMHO.

 

I actually like that FDR has not talked about these issues yet (though I'm a little behind on podcasts) because it provides an opportunity for me to test the waters of the freedom movement and see how people react without an official statement. I have to echo what AustinJames has said: that this event separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

I used to be very active in the reddit /r/ancap community. There always been a handful of familiar people there that reject the moral arguments against the state in favour for the economic/consequentialism one though. Which means they also reject NAP and the principles that stem from that (spanking in particular). This causes problems whenever there comes a discussion now and then relating to a FDR podcast on ethics/peaceful parenting and how it could be used as a method to end or diminish the state. You can spot the ancaps who are not on board with ethics and peaceful parenting quickly.

 

To me there's a very clear divide between people who are serious about non-violence and people who are not. Talking about non-violence within the family can get ugly with people who have not (in my experience) self reflected on their own families shortcoming. They emotionally project that onto FDR, calling it a cult and other related things which Stef has talked about in some of his podcasts relating to "cult". What's interesting is that he has talked about these things in 2006 and has not changed his stance on peaceful parenting nor ethics since then. As he has gotten more popular on the youtube community, the same allegations are resurfacing. It's almost like history repeats itself ;)

 

People used to dismiss him before on basis of UPB. Now people have switched and dismiss him based on these events. I think the hate has transfered into something that's much more easier to argue than UPB. I've actually made a video about it here: 

 

Again, what I find interesting is people's reaction to this event - especially from people who are involved in the freedom movement. I've seen some nasty and empty responses from these sorts when I question or talk to them about the complaints. It reinforces Stefan's arguments on the importance of peaceful parenting and having honest conversations than anything else.

 

I've stopped feeding the trolls and I stay off reddit now ;)

 


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#39
AKeinick

AKeinick
  • 16 posts
I too have noticed the recent vitriol being poured onto Stef and FDR (more than usual), I watched a short YouTube clip explaining how he allegedly lied to Joe Rogan etc etc. I didn't think much of it considering Stef's gold plated track record of integrity as far as I can see, but it spurred me onto download the Rogan episode, lo and behold none of the claims made in the aforementioned clip seemed to hold any weight whatsoever and the whole conversation seemed to do far more to add to Stef's credit than detract. The two claims I remember the most were the one that Stef's wife got suspended which Stef denied, so I looked more closely at the video claiming this was a lie, and it turned out the video had nothing even remotely substantial to back it up, I should have caught that the first time around. The second claim was the one that Stef claims in the Rogan episode that he's never heard of TruShibes, let alone shut them down, and from what I recall, TruShibes doesn't enter the conversation AT ALL, let alone a comment by Stef that he's never heard of them or that he may have shut them down. Then I download the last of Michael Deans "Bash Stef All Week" podcasts and, yet again, there's nothing substantial behind it. Lots of adjectives, yes. Lots of allegory, yes. Zero evidence. Zero argument. Then I think back to some of the more cynical supposedly anarchist people I have on Facebook that have posted things like "FDR/Stef is falling apart, doing Ancaps a disservice" and I realise that none of it has any basis in fact logic or reality of any kind! Suffice it to say that, so far, all this crap that's been cropping up in the last week or so has likely done much to smear Stef's image in the minds of the unthinking majority, but for me it has only reinforced the idea that he must be doing something right if he garners so much unfounded, irrational hatred, mostly from people who refuse to acknowledge that hitting a child is child-abuse!
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GotFreedomBlog.blogspot.com


#40
Mr. Binary

Mr. Binary
  • 115 posts

I really enjoyed your video Lasers (awesome neckbeard btw). Have you considered starting a philosophy + cooking show? I find this combination strangely appealing, and would certainly watch it. It gives the video a very friendly and relaxed atmosphere.

 

It's very instructive for me to see that even in the "liberty" community, some people still have this urge to tear down a person they perceive as popular, the way others do with celebrities. The reactions of various people to this "controversy" have been very interesting as well, and I've been making (mental) notes the whole time.


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#41
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1646 posts

I really enjoyed your video Lasers (awesome neckbeard btw). Have you considered starting a philosophy + cooking show? I find this combination strangely appealing, and would certainly watch it. It gives the video a very friendly and relaxed atmosphere.

 

LOL yeah something about it makes it more intriguing. Must be our TV watching influence where anyone behind a kitchen counter works as a natural podium.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#42
Kevin Beal

Kevin Beal

    Philosopher in Training

  • 2372 posts

This is a most excellent video, and in it Stef responds to some of the criticisms in a way that I think does it the most justice :D

 

 

Stef on ostracism of bad people: 31:50

DMCA issue: 1:10:00


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"While most culture's utilize masks on special occasions, whether that be for ceremony, sport, holiday, or performance, the customs of the dysfunctional family system demand that masks be worn on a round the clock basis. In this world, the performance never ceases. Protection is always necessary. Everyday is Halloween. The costume is sanity." - Joel Patterson


#43
PatrickC

PatrickC

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Thanks Kev


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#44
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

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I am highly disappointed in these people and am amazed how so many of them are piling on. I understand how statists latch on to lies and innuendo, but it has been a revelation to me that so many in this "movement" have suspended their ability to reason. Apparently Michael Dean on Freedom Feens is spending the entire week trashing Stefan. I heard one of the shows and there was so much wrong with what they were saying that I wouldn't even know where to start.

 

Have you listened to the one with former members? I am curious if those really are the same people I hear from the old podcasts, and if they are, how they could possibly turn their backs on FDR. I wonder if Stef has heard it himself.

 

But anyways, the Freedom Feens host explicitly says he thinks you should never remove abusive people from your life. Maybe for a year or two, but never permanently. He uses some very manipulative language calling the community an "inner chamber/circle" and every other reference of Stefan always has to start with some sort of name calling. Plus asks a lot of leading questions that forced them to agree with the unfounded accusations of cult mentality.

 

It was laughable at best, though I am curious on what his thoughts would be about these former members being dedicated to the anti-FDR movement, after it sounds like (at least based from the podcasts I heard them on) they were helped tremendously.

OH and they were saying how Stefan was against gun owners? I could've sworn he made a podcast about how gun ownership actually prevents crime and read off a study where the more accepted gun ownership was for private citizens, the less crime there was because people were able to defend themselves.

 

These modern day sophists. Love how they put words in Stefan's mouth and haven't come up with anything new against his arguments. It's STILL all about him being evil for "promoting" defooing. Yet they say nothing about what you really SHOULD do about abusive people in your life, which leaves me to believe that they were the type of people who excuse the hell out of abusers.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#45
Josh F

Josh F

    ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶

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l love the vid neckbeard, frying the fat!  


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#46
MMD

MMD

  • 1530 posts

Have you listened to the one with former members? I am curious if those really are the same people I hear from the old podcasts, and if they are, how they could possibly turn their backs on FDR. I wonder if Stef has heard it himself.

 

But anyways, the Freedom Feens host explicitly says he thinks you should never remove abusive people from your life. Maybe for a year or two, but never permanently. He uses some very manipulative language calling the community an "inner chamber/circle" and every other reference of Stefan always has to start with some sort of name calling. Plus asks a lot of leading questions that forced them to agree with the unfounded accusations of cult mentality.

 

It was laughable at best, though I am curious on what his thoughts would be about these former members being dedicated to the anti-FDR movement, after it sounds like (at least based from the podcasts I heard them on) they were helped tremendously.

OH and they were saying how Stefan was against gun owners? I could've sworn he made a podcast about how gun ownership actually prevents crime and read off a study where the more accepted gun ownership was for private citizens, the less crime there was because people were able to defend themselves.

 

These modern day sophists. Love how they put words in Stefan's mouth and haven't come up with anything new against his arguments. It's STILL all about him being evil for "promoting" defooing. Yet they say nothing about what you really SHOULD do about abusive people in your life, which leaves me to believe that they were the type of people who excuse the hell out of abusers.

 

One of those people was a close friend of mine but then essentially stole $4000 from me... and it's not like I'm rich or anything, so needless to say, that hurts quite a bit financially.  Me and other mutual friends washed our hands of him after that... so it's not surprising behavior. It's much easier to project your own assholish-ness onto an external entity than take personal responsibility for your own evil and betrayal.

 

From the situation, I got to learn a whole lot about my own vulnerabilities, insecurities and blind spots to allow myself to have people capable of such terrible behavior in my life. It helped me grow quite a bit, but it was incredibly painful at the time... that being said, it's rather bizarre to see somebody publicly trash you when you have enough evidence to EASILY pursue civil and criminal prosecution against them.  Not too smart...


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#47
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

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WHAT?! Oh man I'm so sorry for that, that is still a pretty huge chunk to steal from you. How the hell did that happen? Was it just a loan they've refused to pay back?

 

And yeah that isn't too smart, especially if you do have a good case for their theft you can get them locked up or fined for--but letting them sort of scot free just to trash talk you publicly That's just plain shitty then if they know you could, but haven't taken legal action, and they just slander you. 


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#48
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

Wow, thats fucked. If you have the documentation, I would take the guy to small claims court. True, it is using the state but what other recourse does one have in the current statist paradigm? Its like having to drive on government roads because that is all there is.

 

One of those people was a close friend of mine but then essentially stole $4000 from me... and it's not like I'm rich or anything, so needless to say, that hurts quite a bit financially.  Me and other mutual friends washed our hands of him after that... so it's not surprising behavior. It's much easier to project your own assholish-ness onto an external entity than take personal responsibility for your own evil and betrayal.

 

From the situation, I got to learn a whole lot about my own vulnerabilities, insecurities and blind spots to allow myself to have people capable of such terrible behavior in my life. It helped me grow quite a bit, but it was incredibly painful at the time... that being said, it's rather bizarre to see somebody publicly trash you when you have enough evidence to EASILY pursue civil and criminal prosecution against them.  Not too smart...


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#49
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

Yes I heard one with a woman that claimed to be part of Dr. Evils, oops I mean Stefans "Inner Circle." Young idealistic people trying to find their way often put the responsibility of letting others be their guru to guide them because they don't know how to conduct their life yet. I did that briefly when I was 19 and I think that is what she probably did. The difference between myself and those former "inner circle" devotee's is that I don't blame the group I was involved with because I realized that I put that on them, whereas this former FDR member, the woman I heard, chooses to NOT take responsibility for her immaturity then and still blames Stefan years later.

 

If you go to Jeff Berwicks latest video on Youtube, you will see Michael Dean commenting. Of course I felt compelled to condemn him for his behavior as the rest of you should if you feel so inclined.

 

Here's the video:

 

Have you listened to the one with former members? I am curious if those really are the same people I hear from the old podcasts, and if they are, how they could possibly turn their backs on FDR. I wonder if Stef has heard it himself.

 

But anyways, the Freedom Feens host explicitly says he thinks you should never remove abusive people from your life. Maybe for a year or two, but never permanently. He uses some very manipulative language calling the community an "inner chamber/circle" and every other reference of Stefan always has to start with some sort of name calling. Plus asks a lot of leading questions that forced them to agree with the unfounded accusations of cult mentality.

 

It was laughable at best, though I am curious on what his thoughts would be about these former members being dedicated to the anti-FDR movement, after it sounds like (at least based from the podcasts I heard them on) they were helped tremendously.

OH and they were saying how Stefan was against gun owners? I could've sworn he made a podcast about how gun ownership actually prevents crime and read off a study where the more accepted gun ownership was for private citizens, the less crime there was because people were able to defend themselves.

 

These modern day sophists. Love how they put words in Stefan's mouth and haven't come up with anything new against his arguments. It's STILL all about him being evil for "promoting" defooing. Yet they say nothing about what you really SHOULD do about abusive people in your life, which leaves me to believe that they were the type of people who excuse the hell out of abusers.


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#50
SamuelS

SamuelS
  • 212 posts
Geez, Mike, that's awful. Would you mind sharing your thoughts a bit more on why you haven't pursued legal action? My mind is kinda spinning over that one, I'm no fan of the legal process but I don't doubt for a second I'd sue his ass in a heartbeat if I were in that position.
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#51
PatrickC

PatrickC

    London Meetup organiser

  • 3194 posts

Not that I wish to take away from Mikes experience here, because reneging on a loan is serious douchebaggery. But given the accusations leveled of late that the FDR admin are just sooo free and easy with using state violence. The fact that Mike has decided not too sue this particular individual, dispels that myth. This juxtaposes quite well with the second accusation that they are silencing critics. This whilst many still abound (quite freely and growing it seems). Now seriously.....

 

I know whose back I have covered.


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#52
MMD

MMD

  • 1530 posts

To the people who have asked about me not pursuing legal action, I would much rather spend my time and energy producing videos like this...

 

 

I've lost some money and learned some valuable lessons.

 

I'd rather spend my days trying to make the world a better place, furthering spread the peaceful parenting message and harming the interests of evil people.

 

As long as I have enough money to live without eating my own feet, this is what I wish to do and what I plan to focus on. Most everything else is a distraction. I didn't join a donation based philosophy show in the middle of giant recession because I'm motivated by money. I want to do meaningful work which motivates me to get out of bed every morning. That's how I want to spend my life and mental energy. To those who enable me to do such, I am enormously grateful.


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#53
SamuelS

SamuelS
  • 212 posts
Extremely admirable, thanks for sharing Mike :)
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#54
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

Hey Michael,

 

Good point about learning valuable lessons and moving on.

 

Its obvious you've been an integral part in the expansion of the show this last year and I really appreciate your efforts - thank you!

 

 

To the people who have asked about me not pursuing legal action, I would much rather spend my time and energy producing videos like this...

 

 

I've lost some money and learned some valuable lessons.

 

I'd rather spend my days trying to make the world a better place, furthering spread the peaceful parenting message and harming the interests of evil people.

 

As long as I have enough money to live without eating my own feet, this is what I wish to do and what I plan to focus on. Most everything else is a distraction. I didn't join a donation based philosophy show in the middle of giant recession because I'm motivated by money. I want to do meaningful work which motivates me to get out of bed every morning. That's how I want to spend my life and mental energy. To those who enable me to do such, I am enormously grateful.


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#55
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1646 posts

I'd rather spend my days trying to make the world a better place, furthering spread the peaceful parenting message and harming the interests of evil people.

 

After ruining my brain listening to that Freedom Feens interview and reading a slander article on their site--and still not finding any valid arguments against voluntary relationships or ending child abuse--I have given up on trying to challenge my beliefs by checking out contrary opinions to Stefan and FDR as a whole. It's all the same linguistically manipulative BS empty of any real content, other than emotional attacks, that evil people use. We should do that right? Find opposing opinions to our beliefs in order to get a more objective perspective on them? Well unless people make a valid argument against any of the arguments Stefan presents, instead of just calling him names and accusing things of his character, I no longer want to kill the cat of my curiousity with this nonsense. I am more firm and dedicated than ever to my pursuit of truth and virtue.

 

Thank you fellows, and the community, for what you do; the self-growth, committment to peaceful parenting, seeing the State for the violence that it is, and arguing for sound logic just to name a few. I look at the comments for the people who are in support of anti-FDR movements, and I get the tremendous sense that no one on that side has any humility to admit even a slight amount of fallibility, the same fallibility that I think is crucial to learning new things and being open to change. It's fuckin freaky, but everything discussed in the Bomb in the Brain series is being reinforced so explicitly when I read the kind of content on slander sites and the commentators come up with.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#56
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

Very well said. I too think its important to challenge our positions with opposing arguments, but yes, those who have been attacking Stefan personally have no arguments. There was nothing there but a lot of very mean people revealing the childhood crap they haven't dealt with yet. I get riled up when I see injustice but I'm done with them too as it was a complete waste of time.

 

After ruining my brain listening to that Freedom Feens interview and reading a slander article on their site--and still not finding any valid arguments against voluntary relationships or ending child abuse--I have given up on trying to challenge my beliefs by checking out contrary opinions to Stefan and FDR as a whole. It's all the same linguistically manipulative BS empty of any real content, other than emotional attacks, that evil people use. We should do that right? Find opposing opinions to our beliefs in order to get a more objective perspective on them? Well unless people make a valid argument against any of the arguments Stefan presents, instead of just calling him names and accusing things of his character, I no longer want to kill the cat of my curiousity with this nonsense. I am more firm and dedicated than ever to my pursuit of truth and virtue.

 

Thank you fellows, and the community, for what you do; the self-growth, committment to peaceful parenting, seeing the State for the violence that it is, and arguing for sound logic just to name a few. I look at the comments for the people who are in support of anti-FDR movements, and I get the tremendous sense that no one on that side has any humility to admit even a slight amount of fallibility, the same fallibility that I think is crucial to learning new things and being open to change. It's fuckin freaky, but everything discussed in the Bomb in the Brain series is being reinforced so explicitly when I read the kind of content on slander sites and the commentators come up with.


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#57
PatrickC

PatrickC

    London Meetup organiser

  • 3194 posts

Well said RJ!


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#58
ALinTokyo

ALinTokyo
  • 19 posts

I also listened to those episodes of the Freedom Feens and found nothing substantial. I even listened to the episode of the Anarchy Gumbo podcast where Michael Dean said Stef "psycho-analyzed" him. There was absolutely nothing unusual on that show. In fact, Dean said that he believed that Stef was NOT a cult leader and he wrote in his own book that he recommended breaking off abusive relationships, including family members. On the part that he was supposedly psycho-analyzed, he brought up the topic himself. He said that he and his wife were into BDSM and he specifically asked Stef what he thought about it. Stef gave him his theory on childhood experiences probably being a factor. Stef asked if he had gone to therapy and explored what might be a reason to be into BDSM and I think that's where Dean got offended. Stef even apologized and agreed to read any material that Dean sent him on the topic. 

 

Anyway, on a more interesting note, I sent a meme to Stef's Twitter account on Adrian Peterson. A troll picked up on that and started forwarding me links to FDRliberated and Philosophy Line videos on YouTube. He seems to have a hard time speaking in his own words as he keeps posting videos rather than having a conversation. On top of that, he doesn't use a real name or picture for his avatar. Surprise, surprise. Oh well, trolls will be trolls. 


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#59
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

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Which show was this Lin? I've only seen one show with Michael Dean where he interviewed Stef but there was no mention of BDSM.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#60
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

He seems to have a hard time speaking in his own words as he keeps posting videos rather than having a conversation.

 

My experience is that posting links to what others are saying is typical of what these people are doing. Nothing original. No arguments. Just re-echoing what someone else said. Its bizarre.


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#61
ALinTokyo

ALinTokyo
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Which show was this Lin? I've only seen one show with Michael Dean where he interviewed Stef but there was no mention of BDSM.

 

This is the one I listened to. If you want to skip ahead to that part, it's about the 58-minute mark or so.

 

http://www.kittyfeet...t-on-the-gumbo/


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#62
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

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Thanks Lin, I'll check it out in full sometime to see the progression leading up to it.

 

Final word on the FDR critics and the question to this thread: no, Stefan shouldn't respond to their criticisms. Because they're not criticims. They're libel. They're gonna hate no matter what he does. These are people who really are more invested in OMG DMCA NAP VIOLIATION and have no mention about the committment to ending child abuse, because (I think) they know they would be outing themselves as chld abuse excusers if they ever directly tried to contest the arguments made against coercive parenting--thus rendering them all as victims with their histories hanging out. So they hide under the guise of trying to rescue would and could be FDR members by trying to pass themselves off as rational critics.

 

It would be interesting to hear Stef's thoughts on the former members who spoke out on Freedom Feens, but I'm guessing they might be who he makes occassional reference to when he says people who he thought were friends weren't there for him when he had cancer. I dunno, just a guess. And it's fuckin' horrible that they could speak against him the way they have after the time and energy they've invested at the beginning of FDR, that which I wasn't around for.

 

But it's just gonna attract too much two way attention and the time spent on a video or podcast addressing these people could be the time used for more important projects. After having had my own experience of someone on the internet being dedicated to defaming me, I realize that these persistent trolls are just gonna keep popping up and continuing their "work," and you know what? It's actually encouraging and empowering to know that you've bothered someone so much that they dedicate their time to fighting you through keyboard warrioring. It means that I'm living a life that's enviable because I have found purpose and dedication in fulfilling that purpose. And if someone else's purpose becomes trying to deter you from yours, then it's not your loss at all if anyone comes across their content and convinces potential viewers to stray away from your content. It just means they couldn't handle what you have to offer and don't know how to think for themselves. 

 

I think winning the battles against trolls is a very passive one. It's easier said than done to just say not to feed them. What lies in the very core of that principle is that their own lives are your revenge. You don't even have to lift a finger! If someone's life is so deprived of purpose and contentment, that they spend their days trying to prevent someone else from providing good to the world, then there's nothing you really can or need to do about them. They live their own personal hells due to an unending restentment to virtue, and are filled with the stereotypical anger and hatred that is often preached in religion. The kind of poison you drink expecting to kill your enemies, when in turn only kills you. I don't buy into that idea unless it applies to the life of internet or offline trolls. That is if you can even call their pitiful existence a life. They are so damaged and deteremental to the growth of the world already that you can win the battle of attrition by not even lifting a finger.

 

Much to my detrement, I've browsed some forums dedicated to slandering Stefan and FDR, and what I noticed is that none of them have anything productive to talk about. There are no sub-forums with any meaningful conversations, nor is anyone at all interested in self-growth or the improvement of our world. Just hate hate hate and non argument after non argument. It makes my stomach roil with excitement that I am on this side of things where people are actually benefitting from philosophy and CREATING things that improve the world instead of just focussing on preventing a conversation that actually helps people.

 

TL;DR Yes, I think Stefan should ignore these criticism like he has already been. Let the haters hate. The way I see it there probably 100 billion more webpages out there we may never acknowledge the existence of in our lifetimes--let these people's webpages be included in those 100 billion webpages you remain blind to!


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#63
magentawave

magentawave
  • 219 posts

By the way...  I thought it was interesting that when calling out Michael Dean for his behavior on Jeff Berwicks YT channel page recently that both he and someone named "Jim Jesus" both stalked me enough to figure out that my first name was (Steve) and a reference to an earlier comment in this thread where I jokingly referred to Stefan as "Dr. Evil."


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#65
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1646 posts

Yeah it is sad, but save your sympathy for those who really need it. And thanks for your kind words!

 

In the recent video Stefan made about people's e-mail responses to him in defense of corporal punishment these people are gonna go down in history as the bigots that tried to stump human progress, much like many of others before them when it came to defending slavery and spousal abuse.

 

I was tempted and I regret giving him even 1 visitor today, but I went to the doxxer's Word Press page. He goes on to slander me as a beta male who likes MLP and that I think I'm above therapy because I have sufficient self-knowledge to go without it*--and then sarcastically suggests that people should take my advice on my blog. Obviously ironically trying to say no one should because I'm this virgin loser who gets friendzoned at Starbucks (LOL that's not the coffee shop I frequent, what an idiot. Not even close, and of course he is jealous that I treat women like humans as opposed to prisoners he needs to beat into submission like he has admitted before). 

 

There's not even a small part of me who feels worried enough to say "my GOD, he is so right, no one will find any value in my content now!" because again his assertions are unfounded and inaccurate, just like the accusations against Stef.

 

My immediate thought was, who's gonna take THIS guy's word about me or the other people's he's doxxed? He's just an angry 40 year old child picking on people half his age on the internet because he knows if he acted this way offline, and harrassed people in person, he'd get his ass beaten to a pulp. I relish the day he calls in and apologizes or simply gives up, but til then, I really will let the baby have its bottle if it helps him sleep at night to scream into an empty space of the internet where no one really gives a rat's ass what lies he makes up about FDR members and critics.

 

Because of this whole debacle with the troll and the ones even railing against FDR, I've become more committed to virtue, and you know what? It is gonna be difficult because I know I'm gonna run into more opposition, but I don't care. I know I won't profit or gain much for a while, but I'm in for the long haul. I believe that in my lifetime, there has and will be a huge revolution in human thinking. I've thought about what it would be like to be in the Matrix again, and to even be on the side of irrationality that hates FDR. It's not very pretty. I know and feel too much now to ever go back to "normalcy." I will forever know in the back of my mind that I've derived too much value from here, and hopefully provided some, to ever join the ranks of evil doers or evil defenders.

 

All my life, I've had to stand up to bullies in the form of classmates and teachers, no way can I let crappy people continue doing their shitty bidding.

 

In the end, we will win. And the best way for us to win is to live the best lives possible with virtue and philosophy in our aresenal. The common criticism I've come across is that FDR members spend too much time empathizing and petting each other all day with "I'm so sorry for your child abuse." To make fun of people's vulnerabilities like that is such a blatant display of sadism that I hope the rest of the world gets tired of soon. It really comes to show what kind of history they've had and the kind of empty lives they live if that's how they derive pleasure on the internet. 

 

Like I said before, these people display a huge lack of desire to grow as people, and that makes our work a whole lot easier. To be on that side of this battle between good and evil is to be on the losing by default. We are already winning, my friends. There is no need to retaliate because they do enough of that on their own by choosing to waste their time to try and stop us, instead of creating anything new to the world and providing it any real value.

 

*I think I have quite a lot of self-knowledge, but I'm humble enough to know that therapy can help me even more than I've helped myself the past few years.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


#66
J. D. Stembal

J. D. Stembal
  • 1284 posts

Not that I endorse the naming of any names in public, but do we know the specific identity of the doxxer?

 

I have the amorphous sense that the loudest detractors of FDR are former members. Why else would anyone go to the trouble of attacking individual members and callers, and not just the show itself? They don't just want to disrupt the community, they are seeking revenge. This is not business; it's extremely personal to devote this much time to hate on a group of people collaborating together.

 

After I broke off with my ex, she carbon copied the email address of a woman who she had been talking to via Skype about FDR being a cult. Apparently, this person had been heavily involved with FDR and then "wised up to the scam" and now actively tries to save members from the evil influence of Stefan Molyneux. I wonder if the haters going to great lengths to hate are the some of the same people Stefan culled from his life last year, due to their conspicuous absence during his illness and recovery.

 

What the moral of the story? Why should we give a hoot about what people are saying about us? The haters are personally invested in seeing the community fail. Why? I bring up these questions not because I want to know who these people are. I don't want to name them or shame them. I sincerely want to understand how a mind becomes so twisted that it has to become completely absorbed in tearing down a community that hopes to help themselves and others. Maybe when we understand the pathology behind the doxxing, we can finally put this issue to rest and understand that we are trying to hopelessly deal with the irrational.

 

We cannot deal with irrationality.


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"Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is." – Lord Baelish


#67
emilia

emilia
  • 24 posts

I had quite an intense emotional reaction, when I heard these two former members trashing FDR like they did... I felt very sad about it, and like "we" had lost these people, who I had been listening to on the podcasts so many times, and who I thought got it... Turns out they didn't understand Stef at all, but were just conforming the whole time. That really bothers me. That this community will welcome people like this and they will get to be part of "inner circle" (or whatever you want to call that) and no one will notice that they are only conforming... I think that is scary.

 

I would like to see discussion about this.

 

Edit: I realised that I'm assuming that no one noticed these people were conforming. I don't know if that is true.


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#68
Rainbow Jamz

Rainbow Jamz

    That Popular Anti-Social Guy

  • 1646 posts

YES, Emilia. All they really did was conform. Eveything they said was blaming Stefan for their troubles. With or without FDR, their lives were in bad places at the time. They obsolved themselves of free will the way they spoke.


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You don't know Heaven 'til you've gone through Hell.

 

Nothing is permanent, only short term or long term.

 

http://www.yourwritetolive.com - implementing tips for writing fiction as tools for self knowledge!


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#70
PatrickC

PatrickC

    London Meetup organiser

  • 3194 posts

I had quite an intense emotional reaction, when I heard these two former members trashing FDR like they did... 

 

Hi emilia,

 

I also had a very strong reaction to it as well. My initial reaction was to disappear and vanish from the community and the people I've gotten to know over the years. Fortunately for me, I'm well versed enough in my self that I immediately reached out to my friends and confidants. From my perspective it was somewhat akin to the same fear I had of my family attempting to attack me after making my decision to take a break from them. So too in this particular instance was the fear that there was going to be an avalanche of trolling that was about to descend upon me.

 

That fear has since dissipated completely for me, as I started to understand the connections to my past. I don't know what to make of them conforming, I think they both were probably at the same crossroads as we all will be at some time in our life as we study philosophy and self knowledge. Between choosing the virtuous life or the easy one. It would seem they chose the easy one.


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